If you want real sound deadening advise - Google it under home theater or home recording studio - you'll get more info than you know what to do with!

Hubby isn't here to ask, but I think we're just going to double drywall on none bearing walls and do a  plywood underlayment on bearing to combo  shear strength (earthquake country here!) and reduction of wall sound.

Don't forget - cheap doors - are loud - so if you spend the extra money on upgrading, do the better doors too - or it's a complete waste.

This is a continuation  of a thread from the Misc forum under "I'm ready to give up"

Since I don't have a rich family member who'll lend out money.... here’s my idea for alternative financing:

Michelle -

Has anyone out there personal experience with any of these products? Did they help you get bids, manage time, compare subs, ect... ?

Hope this isn't too wordy/technical.

I'm in Utah, but helped a client who was moving to FL, so I've actually spoken to a handful of FL agents just 6 weeks ago. It stinks out there for any type of property insurance.

* MORATORIUM * temporary cessation of agent binding authority and it's statewide in FL - not just coastal counties :( It usually occurs right after a major catastrophe, but because of Florida's constant hurricane problems, most insurance companies won't write a policy for brand new clients. Some won't write any new policies - period.

So my question to you is: Will your MetLife guy not write your builders risk because of company standards/rules? Is writing the policy okay, but just won't cover theft and/or vandalism? Is he making a personal choice to not bring your risk to the company for fear of potential loss ratio (thinks it stinks and ain't gonna do it). If you've got a "bad feeling" from your Q & A, call the 800 # service number. They should be able to answer all your questions, but remember: get it in writing. Verbal answers don't mean a thing - it's got to be on paper.

Most MetLife guys are independent - so they sell other companies too. Ask him if he's got a Lloyd's of London type (syndicate) company. Worst case: you could have them do a "standard HO-3: exclude windstorm(s), include theft/vandalism/burglary with the builders risk endorsement, etc..." Expect a $2,000-$5,000 deductible. This type of "policy" can also include secondary workers comp, builders liability, it's a Named Peril type policy, so you pick whatever you want to include - It's NOT going to be cheap.

After pulling your hair out on this, you might want to really sit down and figure out how much risk you're willing to take on yourself (uninsured). Rent a lockable container. Transfer the risk to your subs - make them responsible for the custody of the building materials...

A lot? I wish. A Utah-style home - ewww. If we can't plead our way into a local building lot here on the northeast bench - we'll be stuck with a "Garage Mahal" in a west side subdivision (yuck, but only for a year). Have you gone to Daybreak yet? Awesome inspiration for those of use who like other colors than tan stucco.

I've just started my list of local bldg. lots in our area - it's a lot of driving - but worth the effort. We'll be sending out a ("handwritten") letter : please sell us your land and enclosed is a family picture. How goopy will I get to get attention and pull heart strings - pretty darn goopy. 

You'll definitely make 25% savings with 1 1/2 years of planning with the size of that house. Smaller homes have tighter numbers, so there's less room for error. It's nice that you'll have an experienced shoulder to cry on or complain to when you're p.o.'d about the color of the door hinges!  

Yes, building a home will drive you crazy - but the more planning - the less surprises and hence less stress. This has become a "second" job for me (SAHM first) all the debating and design choices - I' trying to stretch that dollar far but w/o looking 'builder grade'. Sometimes it seems like spinning wheels - planning w/o a lot to specifically design for, but I'll be able to draw one up in less than a week when we find the right one.

The quotes I received from GC's were "generalizations" - I showed them a plan we found on the Internet that was very similar to the one I was designing and they gave me a "approximate". I have my own opinions of builders on the "Parade".

Hubby and I are estimating 30% savings max. and counting on 20% savings - if we sub out everything but the radiant heat in the basement ($2,500 + his labor), and the kitchen cabinets (IKEA self-construct and self-install).    

We're planning on a fall start date b/c: we'd get the highest sales price for our SLC home with a springtime listing and hubby gets laid off and/or barely any work during the winter: lemonade out 'o lemons! I don't know if there is a real savings to "build in winter" b/c of weather delays and some of us might have to buy land/lot in the peak spring/summer real estate market, but for us, it works out well. 

35%? You're house is much larger than what we'll be starting out on and the savings is in the house, not the land. How much "self-work" are you planning? If a lot: be as realistic as possible and have a contingency plan in case of a disaster/disability.

If you haven't bought plans yet and need to get a feel for building cost, call your insurance agent. This way you get another opinion of build cost and you'll know the cost of your course of construction insurance. Talk to them about exclusions during the construction phase. Each company is different, but we all have "it ain't covered" clauses.

If I were Queen?

I'd restrict building products leaving the county - for a short while.

I'd do a reverse on our "protective" tariffs or eliminate them altogether, creating a free market -wow- what a concept.

Lumber from Canada!    Concrete products from Mexico!

I'd create laws that might actually help the lumber industry.

I'd find another "Most Favored Nation"

Maybe our elected officials could actually do us a favor -ha, ha, ha.

Geeze, that's really not so funny. But if we're being restricted in our own "free" market and China is still getting their concrete - there is something sick and wrong.

Off Topic: When I lived in Seattle, a major source of contention was that China bought A LOT of our raw lumber with no taxes being paid, they'd mill it on huge processing ships out at sea, and then sell it back to us - again with no tariffs! Couldn't compete - I wonder if that still happens?

Just my two cents. It Is COMFY!

My hubby installed the hydronic system in his mom's 1929 Tudor - after we did an 18-inch basement dig-out. This was part of a $150K remodel. We were quoted $40K-$60K from contractors but did it ourselves for about $12K (not my checkbook, so unclear on the exact cost). My Father-in-law is a computer geek & rewrote the software for the heat exchange ratios, that was way over my head. But Standard Hydronics in SLC was awesome to work with but we got very lucky - they normally won't touch a DIY'er - liabilities, etc...

I will install the system in our house to be built. The dry air here in UT kills us each winter with the forced air system. If you are building the house to live in rather than sell & build again - the cost is soo worth your comfort level. If you're in TX, LA, GA : those high humidity states, the forced air system with a dehumidifier might be the solution.

And on the leakage problems. 1) If you leave your pressure test going for over a week - it'll be darned hard to miss any poor connections. 2) Be careful! those hoses can puncture, but once they're enclosed, (slab/drywall) it's kinda hard to have a leak if they're protected.

Sloppy work from a contractor will definitely show up - I'd include an "inherent defect" clause in my contract. It'll reinforce your legal rights on making them fix problems that "can't be visually seen".

If you have any technical/specific questions, feel free to "Private Message" us & I'll get my hubby to answer.

Baine,

Your dude with the $1M+ house... You said it ALL with "how after he sold the other 8 for 8 million we didn't get into" I'm sorry, but all I can think of is, duh... of course the dimwit can't get financing - he  (a businessman G.C.) SIPHONED off all the money on his other projects. 

Even if he completed the other eight - would you lend him your personal savings for a short spell? I wouldn't. 

Back in the 90's when I was in Washington - InterWest Bank loaned on land plus foundations with No Problem. It was a common practice. Although, I don't know if it's changed.

I received the Cabinetmaker magazine from that site and have found some good info within - but it's really geared to medium-sized production shops.

Interesting reading.

We were looking at the cost of typical cove crown moulding and I freaked out, but think I've come up with a solution.

Wide Flat Crowns and Casings. A 1920's style.

We could buy a quality MDF in a 4x8 sheet- rip it to size on the table saw- router the edges - prime - then first coat and then apply.

We've done a test sample and once it's painted - you can't tell it's MDF.

Problem is that I don't know how well it'll be received by potential buyers. I think it'll be awesome!

Has anyone here done it? or planning on using same technique?

See link:

deckcoatings.com/index.html

excellentcoatings.com/Home.htm

dec-tec.com

facilitiesnet.com/ms/article.asp?id=1921

mulehide.com/products3.html

These are the links that I bookmarked last year - we've scrapped the plan that included a deck over the garage - but here in Utah - we have a large builder that includes them in his available plans.  They "say" they've never had problems. 

Also, check out This Old House. They're currently showing a rehab on a mid-century modern with a flat roof - Tom Silva - the construction guru that he is - says if done properly - the new products out there  can withstand with a East Coast winter for 30 years. 

Unless you plan on dying in the home - I don't think y'all ought to forgo the basement.  If all your neighbors have basements, it could really hurt the resale: time & money.  Plus, even if you never make it 'living area' & it's great for plain old storage.   

How do your real estate agents market homes there?   Here in the Salt Lake area, they advertise the total square footage -including unfinished (concrete) basement space.  That really irritated me when I first got here: a flier for a "2,400" sf house" was really for 1200 sf home + 1200 sf of concrete basement.

Since we're not going to see much more money for actually "finishing" the space, we plan on making it a mega playground, craft/ sewing/ tackle room.  We'll add a bath, frame in the mechanical room, rock & mud all walls & the ceiling, install kid proof lighting and stain & seal the concrete floor - and then the kids can have at it!  It'll be a 1,000+ sf indoor soccer, skates & a finger painting heaven. Hubby wants to add a projection screen & call it a theater - we'll see. But it'll certainly help for keeping the kids active during the cold months.

Cheaper than what?

I agree, building up is less than building out.   But are you asking cost difference on a "real" 3rd floor or a "walking" attic? What would be the purpose/direction of the space?

My in-laws have a 1920's Tudor on a 900 sf footprint that has a basement, 1st, 2nd & shed attic, which is ALL LIVING space but the trek up & down really stinks. No need for a stair machine in the ol' home gym :-)

Let us know your living space idea for the 3rd floor and I'm sure we can drown you in ideas. 

Also try this site for lots of "other nuts like us" out in cyberworld.  ths.gardenweb.com/forums

bedrock   &  huge boulders     - they can be a budget breaker.

Sometimes the extra expense for blasting & removal can make building up, rather than down, a better alternative. 

soggy soil  -   means extra water proofing

French drains, trucks 'n trucks of gravel, multiple sump pumps, engineering interior wall water barriers between concrete & studs...

Here's a PAIR of cooks who're going to O-B - b/c we DO cooking, canning and brewing.

Even if you put high-end appliances in - a real cook - can walk into a kitchen and tell it wasn't designed and built for people who like to cook. But it's like the above M.B. example, some folks will buy it just because it looks nice - doesn't have to be functional.

When we started house hunting two years ago, after being sorely disappointed, even after looking at houses out of our price range -

I came to three conclusions:

1) We need to win the lotto to buy a house with a "real kitchen".

2) Buy a house just to GUT the kitchen

3)*** BUILD IT from scratch *** but we can't afford a custom G.C.

T.G. we accidentally found this website - or I'd be in a Garage Mahal with a larger house payment and still hate my house.

The only reason I'm not sitting in my nice new kitchen at this point, is b/c our industry went to the crapper and T.G. we're almost done waiting for it to come back.

As for sales appeal - talk to your local real estate agents - every market varies.

I love the idea of re-use on the old church T & G, but John's right, it's cheaper to do new T & G, although, it doesn't give you the bragging rights...

On that note. IF, you can get access to some of the wood, you could pick a special spot in the house to showcase it - that would be great "personal touch" to your house - and hopefully it'd be on the land you're in love with.

You mentioned the land was yours on a handshake. Did everything come together as hoped?

*To qualify, you must have lived there - a total of two years - within a maximum five-year period - as a primary residence.    

*IRS easily accepts: single-family residences, boats/yachts, townhomes, condo's and co-op's... 

*But you can file for acceptance of a 2-4 family residence w/a percentage adjustment if you depreciated, mobile homes (if on perm. foundation), and land if you can show habitual improvements (for the serious hermit-back-to-the-landers only).

*Not happening: Motorhomes, small apt. in a garage/shop (actual % needed), any apt. of five or more units, commercial condo/retail/storage space...

If you built a tree house in Hawaii - yes it can be done - but you've got to prove it, and proof can sometimes depend on how good a day the IRS agent is having.

Just my basic knowledge gathered from reading and talking to folks.

Oh hark, doth this issue raise its ugly head, and escape not us Americans ever? Sad are our founders.

- Netie

Sandy, I agree w/ Kenneth that you're not going to build a house for that, but maybe a nice cabin.

building-cost.net/

I just went to the above site & punched in: 2,100 sq ft, 4 corner foundation, everything "low quality", flat roof, no HVAC of any kind, Phx area = $42,000 for materials alone.

You might want to play around with that site and there are a few others out there too. Here's another one that I have book marked, but haven't looked at them in a while. get-a-quote.net/

Also, try hcl.indymacbank.com/Consumers/Tools

for a relatively detailed list. There are more lists & calculators out on the net, just need to google & hunt.

When hubby is laid off for awhile (electrician) we can't get the loan & when he' working he doesn't have the time. So I get to be the general :') and he the inspector.

Question: Are y'all retired to be able to trade your work time for on site "hammerin' time"? That's a major problem for most of us - and then of course add in kids...

Resale,  unless you've got the kind location  -  resale.

In UT, a Manufactured Home is going to maintain value - at best - for the first couple of years - and only maintaining value,  means declining value when you factor in our average 6% annual appreciation.  And then look at the average days they're listed on the MLS - it'll be a lot, a lot, longer. 

Call a few local real estate agents and ask them to compare average market time for similar conventional houses in your / the same area. 

Yes, MH's can be really nice, my aunt lives in northern NV where the developer used them in a really super nice retirement community - but by evidence of their length of time on the market - there is still a stigma attached to the product.

Why "no IKEA"?

We're looking at them vs. Mills Pride. I personally like the contemporary look; my hubby likes the typical American look of the latter, even though they too are the European faceless frames. 

There's been some mention about the Consumer Report listing of IKEA as third in quality and first in price on this forum, and on the GardenWeb board there is a lot of positive feedback with some negative - mostly lack of sizes/compatibility.

If you have any technical info, I'd love to hear about it - if it's just a personal design choice - that's cool too.

Thanx.

I moved to UT from the Puget Sound (WA) area and lots of people dropped an old single-wide on the land while they or a contractor built the house. It was almost a badge of honor and gave bragging rights to "have lived through heck" in a tiny space. Now here in UT: I've called several counties and the rule of thumb is - if the land is in an incorporated area, NOPE! But it's okay in the county areas - except Salt Lake County. So if you want to do this moneysaving move: make sure you are allowed to BEFORE you buy the land.

They are absolutely Gorgeous!   I don't think the price is out of line for your area.  I just came back from Pacifica. 

If you think in ratios :

A house worth $300,000  has a normal $20,000 kitchen which equals 6.7% of total value.

And a typical house in the San Francisco is $1,000,000 - so that'd give you $67,000 for a "regular" kitchen.     

My brother's house (a P.O.S.) is worth $1.2 million and he rents it for only $2,000 a month. Talk about a DISPARITY!

I'd love to have any of the lines you've linked to, unfortunately 1) Salt Lake City would not support something so "unique" and of course 2) I'd have to sell my kids to afford it!  3) That's why we're doing Ikea.

Good luck I know that the Bay Area is soo slammed with residential construction that you really need a good referral to get a contractors attention.   

So my recommendation is talk to a high-end residential architect.  He'll have the contacts - and of course will be more than happy to take a fee to coordinate it all but, you might be able to negotiate level of involvement.

2,300 miles, a wedding and two IKEA kitchen departments later, we’re back.

We weren't polite. And probably ticked a lot of folks off, but hey, we needed to vocalize in complete honesty - aloud to each other - as we poked, slammed, kicked, scrutinized and took lots of pictures. Remember, DH was a high-end cabinetmaker/installer, and I don’t pull any punches. By the time we were done, we had a small crowd just staring and listening. 

DH started with, "This crud is better than the BORG's (Big Orange) crap," followed by, "At one-third the price, this stuff is pretty darn good," and “I could improve that by doing this…” and concluding with "A $50K kitchen in our house is stupid, and This Is Our New Kitchen," etc… DH isn’t sitting here to give me details; I’ll try to get him in later.

KITCHEN -

DH's bottom line: If you like the door styles and are going with laminated MDF bases anyway – go with the IKEA cabinets – don’t waste your money – you are not getting a better product. Pay an installer to put them together if you can’t or don’t have the time and/or skill.

My opinion: I dislike their cheaper lines for kitchen use – but they’d be great for laundry/mudroom or kids' bath and I wish they had a few more sizes, but I absolutely LOVE the finishes and the door styles. I felt their accessories and hardware were attractive and hefty, drawer slides were metal but not noisy, and the Domsjo farm sink at $199 is a steal, and it all comes together so nicely. It’s definitely a go for me. They have a commercial-style springy pull-down faucet that will find it’s way to my house.  

Also, the higher-end lighting (which was still inexpensive!) was well built and I really liked all the choices. The lower-end lighting is just that, but at least it has flair and style – great for the ever-changing finicky younger crowd.   

Bathroom - Cabinets look really good, but aren’t as sturdy. I’d use them in a low-use or guest bath – instead use the kitchen system and cut them down to a standard 18”-22” depth.  Their sinks were really nice and the faucets looked and felt good.

Furniture/Storage – it’s hit and miss. I wouldn’t order solely from the catalog, since you can’t really judge substance from a picture.  

Our conclusion is that since Garagemajals and McMansions around here have MDF bases - we’re going to SAVE thousands on the cabinets and upgrade counters, appliances and lighting, and pocket the rest. And have a REALLY NICE KITCHEN.

It's not impossible but hard.  We have a small family off grid cabin & after 2 weeks of phone calls - we found zero that would finance - at less than 10%!  and thats with perfect credit.  We ended up just taking the money out of primary. 

Maybe try calling "green builders" or 'green building material suppliers' in your area and ask them for a little direction.

I'd post over on the 'green building' forums here and on other sites for best results.

Good luck.

I know IKEA cabinets haven't gotten the best reviews from people on this site but it sounded like most people just can't get past the thought that the bases are MDF.

Well, after looking at HD and Lowe's, and then checking out larger semi-custom cabinetmakers in my area --- all of the bases are MDF unless you want to upgrade for 20%-30% more.  

Yuck. I can pay to have someone else assemble and install IKEA cabinets for thousands less - or can take time off work,  do it all ourselves and save over $10,000. Hmm...

So we're off to CA for a wedding plus vacation and we've set an entire day aside to talk to an IKEA kitchen planner and really scrutinize the products. 

When we get back I'll post a report. For now, here are some sites that I've found to be helpful.

Bolin Cosulting

Inex Construction

-Netie.